IRC Archive for channel #xwiki on 27 November 2014
Last modified by Vincent Massol on 2014/11/27 23:58
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08:28 <vmassol> tmortagne: good morning, GD is marked for 6.3 on http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/ReleaseManagerRoster and you're marked next. What should we do to decide who's next RM for 6.4M1 on Monday? We need to find the RM today so that he can prepare to be ready for the Monday release
08:29 <vmassol> my take is that we cannot have 2 persons doing a release so 6.3 should be marked either as your release or GD's
08:30 <vmassol> and I believe it should be marked yours actually since you replaced GD (even though he helped finish it)
08:31 <tmortagne> vmassol: we already said it was GD on 6.3, I will do the next one
08:31 <tmortagne> he just forgot to move himself
08:31 <vmassol> ok fine with me
08:31 <vmassol> moving
08:33 <vmassol> cool http://ci.xwiki.org/job/xwiki-platform/ is building again
08:33 <vmassol> (just finished)
08:33 <vmassol> several failing enterprise tests though
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13:18 <DarkKnightCZ> hi, any easy way how to export whole space as xar?
13:23 <tmortagne> DarkKnightCZ: depends on your version, there is http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-11337 in 6.3
13:24 <tmortagne> before 6.3 you will have to either export the whole wiki and then cleanup the XAR, put yourself all the pages in the export URL or use an extension that provide this feature
13:24 <tmortagne> there is several on extnsions.xwiki.org AFAIK
13:27 <DarkKnightCZ> yup, 6.2... but modifying the xar isn't so hard (if the wiki doesn't have more pages... exporting 2GB wiki for several pages would be a lot more fun :) )
13:29 <tmortagne> yep if the wiki is very big the simplest is probably to choose one of the extensions on extensions.xwiki.org
13:34 <DarkKnightCZ> yup, thanks
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14:10 <vmassol> guys I need your opinion on something
14:11 <vmassol> I've just realized that the new mail sender api script service has no check on permissions....
14:11 <vmassol> so I'd like to put some permission check but I'm wondering what to put
14:11 <vmassol> obviously an easy solution is to ask for PR
14:12 <vmassol> but this means that you won't allow local admins to be able to send mails for example. So I guess a perfect solution would be to have a special right for sending emails but our admin UI for rights is not extensible
14:12 <vmassol> and I don't want to code yet another UI (as GD did for the "wiki creation right")
14:12 <vmassol> and the problem is:
14:13 <vmassol> we use the scripting api in the Registration.xml page for example
14:13 <vmassol> and this page won't have PR
14:13 <vmassol> no registration sorry
14:13 <vmassol> ResetPassword.xml
14:13 <vmassol> (for now that's the only place but we'll have more later as we move from the old api to this one)
14:13 <vmassol> btw I've noticed that the old mailsender doesn't do any check either….
14:14 <vmassol> so I'm not sure what's best...
14:14 <vmassol> if you have any idea I'm all ears :)
14:16 <vmassol> ofc a solution is to have the resetpassword.xml do the mail sending in some java api and do the same whenever there's a need but that's a lot of work… wonder if there's somerhting simpler
14:20 <vmassol> actually this is what we do registration, the email is sent in a java api
14:20 <ClemensR> the obvious (to me) but not so nice alternative to PR would be to check for Admin rights instead, so at least local admins can set up pages who can send mail.
14:20 <vmassol> Clemesn that won't work
14:21 <vmassol> becuase it would mean that only admins can reste their passwords :)
14:21 <vmassol> *reset
14:21 <ClemensR> or allow the admin to configure the right ... ah, it wont, ok
14:21 <vmassol> I think the only solution I can think of ATM is:
14:21 <ClemensR> ah, I thought check PR on the author of the page, nit the viewer
14:21 <ClemensR> s/nit/not/
14:21 <vmassol> yes we could do that
14:22 <vmassol> but we usually don't like to have pages requiring PR
14:22 <vmassol> they're a pain
14:22 <ClemensR> which is known to produce the "usual" problems ... yes
14:22 <vmassol> so signed scripts… hehe
14:22 <vmassol> Denis1: any christmas gift planned for the xwiki project from your part? :)
14:23 <vmassol> so I either PR on the doc or the api way
14:23 <vmassol> if we go the api way then we still need to decide what permission the scripting api requires: either Admin or PR
14:24 <vmassol> Admin is fine if you trust your local admins which may not always be true
14:24 <vmassol> (for example myxwiki.org)
14:24 <ClemensR> if mail sending is considered dangerous enough that not everybody can do it (and I see why one would thing so;) then yes, looks like the "write an api for every use"
14:24 <ClemensR> s/thing/think/
14:26 <ClemensR> looks like an extra setting in the Mail config admin ? "Which (global) right is required to use the mail sender API: Programming/Admin/Edit/View ?"
14:26 <vmassol> that's what I was saying above
14:26 <vmassol> So I guess a perfect solution would be to have a special right for sending emails but our admin UI for rights is not extensible and I don't want to code yet another UI (as GD did for the "wiki creation right")
14:27 <vmassol> maybe I should bite the bullet and do it
14:27 <vmassol> but it doesn't work actually
14:27 <ClemensR> I mean: allow the (main) admin to pick which right is necessary
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14:27 <vmassol> as I said te check can only be done on the document
14:27 <vmassol> as we need eveyrone to be able to reset their password (for example)
14:28 <vmassol> or do you mean:
14:28 <vmassol> API (for ResetPassword.xml) + a new right for the mail sender script service
14:29 <ClemensR> ah, I thought the reset passwd was the special API case, where the rights are not used anyway (?)
14:29 <tmortagne> vmassol: I would vote for a special API, but in the case of reset passwor as we already discusses having it in a page is quite wrong and it should be a a dedicated actio anyway
14:29 <vmassol> (which is probably the best but that's going to take a lot of time)
14:29 <tmortagne> now the question remain for other applications that would wand to send mails
14:29 <tmortagne> requiring PR is quite a pain
14:30 <vmassol> either that or they create their own apis….
14:30 <ClemensR> I thought only the scripting API for the mail sender does the check? ... (/me goes away reading the docs first)
14:30 <vmassol> there's no check now but that's the idea yes
14:30 <vmassol> (ClemensR)
14:31 <vmassol> tmortagne: for example the Meeting Manager app
14:31 <vmassol> has a need to send mails
14:31 <vmassol> Lyes: can you confirm that ATM the meeting manager has no java code?
14:32 <vmassol> so if would mean that they'd need to introduce some java module just for this
14:32 <vmassol> or require PR for some of their pages
14:33 <tmortagne> yes
14:33 <vmassol> I don't see any other solution right now
14:33 <vmassol> so to summarize:
14:33 <tmortagne> but keeping this API fully open is probably not an option
14:33 <vmassol> 1) modify resetpassword feature to call some java code to do the mail sending
14:33 <vmassol> 2) add a doc PR check in the mail sender scirp service
14:33 <vmassol> *script
14:34 <vmassol> there remains one problem
14:34 <vmassol> what do we do with the old mailsender plugin….
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14:34 <tmortagne> I would prefer 1) do a proper action dedicated to reset password since haveing it has a page cause other issues
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14:35 <vmassol> yes we agree
14:35 <vmassol> nope
14:35 <vmassol> at least not that I have seen by looking at the code
14:35 <vmassol> ofc the solution is to migrate to use the new mail sender api and to write java code where needed
14:35 <vmassol> but it's a breaking change
14:35 <tmortagne> indeed not a single test in there
14:36 <vmassol> for extensions using the old mailsdner api
14:37 <vmassol> let me check the code
14:37 <vmassol> - Invitation.WebHome
14:37 <vmassol> that seems all
14:37 <vmassol> in platform
14:38 <vmassol> there's no invitation java api module yet
14:38 <vmassol> so that would mean adding one with some api
14:38 <vmassol> a bit of work...
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14:51 <ClemensR> the "send page as mail" uses the mailplugin, too, via shareinline.vm ...
14:55 <vmassol> ah indeedI only checked .xml pages
14:56 <vmassol> hmm
14:57 <vmassol> we don't have special rights in vms, right?
14:57 <vmassol> (filesystem vms)
14:58 <vmassol> how do we give PRs to a vm? :)
14:59 <Lyes> @Vincent : we have integration test on the Meeting manager
14:59 <Lyes> @vmassol
14:59 <vmassol> Lyes: ok but not java api
14:59 <vmassol> *no
14:59 <Lyes> no
14:59 <Lyes> only tests
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15:06 <vmassol> so the answer is to use ##!priviledged=true ;)
15:13 <tmortagne> yea don't make it too public right now, those fancy template properties hasn't been discussed much yet
16:02 <ClemensR> btw, when sending a page via mail, the line before the user message reads "Here is their message:" while the mail is only from a single user. I guess someone wanted to dodge the "Here is his/her message" decision. Maybe just "Here is the message:" might be better, however ?
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16:28 <vmassol> guys do you agree with my comment at http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-10789 ?
16:31 <vmassol> updated
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16:53 <tmortagne> vmassol: it's always nice to remove stuff from XWikiPreferences yes
16:53 <tmortagne> but hope nothing is expecting to find those fields here
16:54 <tmortagne> the old mail plugin would have to be refactored too take the configuration in the right place
16:56 <vmassol> yes, that's why I said deprecated not removed
16:57 <vmassol> but there's the problem of updating thereafter
16:57 <vmassol> unless we don't want to support that
16:58 <tmortagne> you can't just say it's deprecated and let the plugin use wrong value, it probably not very hard to make the plugin use MailSenderConfiguration component
16:58 <vmassol> sure
16:58 <vmassol> but what about other extensiotns
16:59 <vmassol> ?
16:59 <vmassol> (using those values)
16:59 <tmortagne> other extension that are sending mail without using the standard mail sender plugin or new component ?
16:59 <tmortagne> I seriously doubt there is much
16:59 <vmassol> there are probably people who's extended the mailsender plugin with additional code
17:00 <vmassol> they'll need to update their code too or it won't work
17:00 <vmassol> but it could be acceptable
17:00 <tmortagne> in that case they should use createMailConfiguration API provided by the plugin
17:00 <vmassol> we would documet in release notes
17:00 <vmassol> oh yes I'd definitely introduce a MailConfiguration (I already have it)
17:01 <tmortagne> you don't understand createMailConfiguration is an existing API in the plugin
17:01 <tmortagne> anyone that want to "extend" the plugin should use that to acces the configuration
17:01 <tmortagne> no directly access XWikiPreference document
17:01 <vmassol> it's not extension I'm worried about
17:01 <vmassol> people usually don't extend
17:01 <vmassol> they just copy the code
17:01 <vmassol> and make modifications
17:01 <vmassol> and then use their version
17:02 <vmassol> but as I said we could decide to not support that
17:02 <vmassol> and that's all
17:02 <vmassol> :)
17:02 <tmortagne> we want to get rid of everything in XWikiPreference anyway
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17:21 <vmassol> Enygma`: cool, there's a candidate for freedom sponsor on the list! I'll let you reply to him ;)
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17:49 <Enygma`> vmassol: found it! Writing a reply
17:52 <tmortagne> now he needs to have answers :)
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08:28 <vmassol> tmortagne: good morning, GD is marked for 6.3 on http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/ReleaseManagerRoster and you're marked next. What should we do to decide who's next RM for 6.4M1 on Monday? We need to find the RM today so that he can prepare to be ready for the Monday release
08:29 <vmassol> my take is that we cannot have 2 persons doing a release so 6.3 should be marked either as your release or GD's
08:30 <vmassol> and I believe it should be marked yours actually since you replaced GD (even though he helped finish it)
08:31 <tmortagne> vmassol: we already said it was GD on 6.3, I will do the next one
08:31 <tmortagne> he just forgot to move himself
08:31 <vmassol> ok fine with me
08:31 <vmassol> moving
08:33 <vmassol> cool http://ci.xwiki.org/job/xwiki-platform/ is building again
08:33 <vmassol> (just finished)
08:33 <vmassol> several failing enterprise tests though
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13:18 <DarkKnightCZ> hi, any easy way how to export whole space as xar?
13:23 <tmortagne> DarkKnightCZ: depends on your version, there is http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-11337 in 6.3
13:24 <tmortagne> before 6.3 you will have to either export the whole wiki and then cleanup the XAR, put yourself all the pages in the export URL or use an extension that provide this feature
13:24 <tmortagne> there is several on extnsions.xwiki.org AFAIK
13:27 <DarkKnightCZ> yup, 6.2... but modifying the xar isn't so hard (if the wiki doesn't have more pages... exporting 2GB wiki for several pages would be a lot more fun :) )
13:29 <tmortagne> yep if the wiki is very big the simplest is probably to choose one of the extensions on extensions.xwiki.org
13:34 <DarkKnightCZ> yup, thanks
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14:10 <vmassol> guys I need your opinion on something
14:11 <vmassol> I've just realized that the new mail sender api script service has no check on permissions....
14:11 <vmassol> so I'd like to put some permission check but I'm wondering what to put
14:11 <vmassol> obviously an easy solution is to ask for PR
14:12 <vmassol> but this means that you won't allow local admins to be able to send mails for example. So I guess a perfect solution would be to have a special right for sending emails but our admin UI for rights is not extensible
14:12 <vmassol> and I don't want to code yet another UI (as GD did for the "wiki creation right")
14:12 <vmassol> and the problem is:
14:13 <vmassol> we use the scripting api in the Registration.xml page for example
14:13 <vmassol> and this page won't have PR
14:13 <vmassol> no registration sorry
14:13 <vmassol> ResetPassword.xml
14:13 <vmassol> (for now that's the only place but we'll have more later as we move from the old api to this one)
14:13 <vmassol> btw I've noticed that the old mailsender doesn't do any check either….
14:14 <vmassol> so I'm not sure what's best...
14:14 <vmassol> if you have any idea I'm all ears :)
14:16 <vmassol> ofc a solution is to have the resetpassword.xml do the mail sending in some java api and do the same whenever there's a need but that's a lot of work… wonder if there's somerhting simpler
14:20 <vmassol> actually this is what we do registration, the email is sent in a java api
14:20 <ClemensR> the obvious (to me) but not so nice alternative to PR would be to check for Admin rights instead, so at least local admins can set up pages who can send mail.
14:20 <vmassol> Clemesn that won't work
14:21 <vmassol> becuase it would mean that only admins can reste their passwords :)
14:21 <vmassol> *reset
14:21 <ClemensR> or allow the admin to configure the right ... ah, it wont, ok
14:21 <vmassol> I think the only solution I can think of ATM is:
14:21 <ClemensR> ah, I thought check PR on the author of the page, nit the viewer
14:21 <ClemensR> s/nit/not/
14:21 <vmassol> yes we could do that
14:22 <vmassol> but we usually don't like to have pages requiring PR
14:22 <vmassol> they're a pain
14:22 <ClemensR> which is known to produce the "usual" problems ... yes
14:22 <vmassol> so signed scripts… hehe
14:22 <vmassol> Denis1: any christmas gift planned for the xwiki project from your part? :)
14:23 <vmassol> so I either PR on the doc or the api way
14:23 <vmassol> if we go the api way then we still need to decide what permission the scripting api requires: either Admin or PR
14:24 <vmassol> Admin is fine if you trust your local admins which may not always be true
14:24 <vmassol> (for example myxwiki.org)
14:24 <ClemensR> if mail sending is considered dangerous enough that not everybody can do it (and I see why one would thing so;) then yes, looks like the "write an api for every use"
14:24 <ClemensR> s/thing/think/
14:26 <ClemensR> looks like an extra setting in the Mail config admin ? "Which (global) right is required to use the mail sender API: Programming/Admin/Edit/View ?"
14:26 <vmassol> that's what I was saying above
14:26 <vmassol> So I guess a perfect solution would be to have a special right for sending emails but our admin UI for rights is not extensible and I don't want to code yet another UI (as GD did for the "wiki creation right")
14:27 <vmassol> maybe I should bite the bullet and do it
14:27 <vmassol> but it doesn't work actually
14:27 <ClemensR> I mean: allow the (main) admin to pick which right is necessary
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14:27 <vmassol> as I said te check can only be done on the document
14:27 <vmassol> as we need eveyrone to be able to reset their password (for example)
14:28 <vmassol> or do you mean:
14:28 <vmassol> API (for ResetPassword.xml) + a new right for the mail sender script service
14:29 <ClemensR> ah, I thought the reset passwd was the special API case, where the rights are not used anyway (?)
14:29 <tmortagne> vmassol: I would vote for a special API, but in the case of reset passwor as we already discusses having it in a page is quite wrong and it should be a a dedicated actio anyway
14:29 <vmassol> (which is probably the best but that's going to take a lot of time)
14:29 <tmortagne> now the question remain for other applications that would wand to send mails
14:29 <tmortagne> requiring PR is quite a pain
14:30 <vmassol> either that or they create their own apis….
14:30 <ClemensR> I thought only the scripting API for the mail sender does the check? ... (/me goes away reading the docs first)
14:30 <vmassol> there's no check now but that's the idea yes
14:30 <vmassol> (ClemensR)
14:31 <vmassol> tmortagne: for example the Meeting Manager app
14:31 <vmassol> has a need to send mails
14:31 <vmassol> Lyes: can you confirm that ATM the meeting manager has no java code?
14:32 <vmassol> so if would mean that they'd need to introduce some java module just for this
14:32 <vmassol> or require PR for some of their pages
14:33 <tmortagne> yes
14:33 <vmassol> I don't see any other solution right now
14:33 <vmassol> so to summarize:
14:33 <tmortagne> but keeping this API fully open is probably not an option
14:33 <vmassol> 1) modify resetpassword feature to call some java code to do the mail sending
14:33 <vmassol> 2) add a doc PR check in the mail sender scirp service
14:33 <vmassol> *script
14:34 <vmassol> there remains one problem
14:34 <vmassol> what do we do with the old mailsender plugin….
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14:34 <tmortagne> I would prefer 1) do a proper action dedicated to reset password since haveing it has a page cause other issues
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14:35 <vmassol> yes we agree
14:35 <vmassol> nope
14:35 <vmassol> at least not that I have seen by looking at the code
14:35 <vmassol> ofc the solution is to migrate to use the new mail sender api and to write java code where needed
14:35 <vmassol> but it's a breaking change
14:35 <tmortagne> indeed not a single test in there
14:36 <vmassol> for extensions using the old mailsdner api
14:37 <vmassol> let me check the code
14:37 <vmassol> - Invitation.WebHome
14:37 <vmassol> that seems all
14:37 <vmassol> in platform
14:38 <vmassol> there's no invitation java api module yet
14:38 <vmassol> so that would mean adding one with some api
14:38 <vmassol> a bit of work...
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14:51 <ClemensR> the "send page as mail" uses the mailplugin, too, via shareinline.vm ...
14:55 <vmassol> ah indeedI only checked .xml pages
14:56 <vmassol> hmm
14:57 <vmassol> we don't have special rights in vms, right?
14:57 <vmassol> (filesystem vms)
14:58 <vmassol> how do we give PRs to a vm? :)
14:59 <Lyes> @Vincent : we have integration test on the Meeting manager
14:59 <Lyes> @vmassol
14:59 <vmassol> Lyes: ok but not java api
14:59 <vmassol> *no
14:59 <Lyes> no
14:59 <Lyes> only tests
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15:06 <vmassol> so the answer is to use ##!priviledged=true ;)
15:13 <tmortagne> yea don't make it too public right now, those fancy template properties hasn't been discussed much yet
16:02 <ClemensR> btw, when sending a page via mail, the line before the user message reads "Here is their message:" while the mail is only from a single user. I guess someone wanted to dodge the "Here is his/her message" decision. Maybe just "Here is the message:" might be better, however ?
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16:28 <vmassol> guys do you agree with my comment at http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-10789 ?
16:31 <vmassol> updated
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16:53 <tmortagne> vmassol: it's always nice to remove stuff from XWikiPreferences yes
16:53 <tmortagne> but hope nothing is expecting to find those fields here
16:54 <tmortagne> the old mail plugin would have to be refactored too take the configuration in the right place
16:56 <vmassol> yes, that's why I said deprecated not removed
16:57 <vmassol> but there's the problem of updating thereafter
16:57 <vmassol> unless we don't want to support that
16:58 <tmortagne> you can't just say it's deprecated and let the plugin use wrong value, it probably not very hard to make the plugin use MailSenderConfiguration component
16:58 <vmassol> sure
16:58 <vmassol> but what about other extensiotns
16:59 <vmassol> ?
16:59 <vmassol> (using those values)
16:59 <tmortagne> other extension that are sending mail without using the standard mail sender plugin or new component ?
16:59 <tmortagne> I seriously doubt there is much
16:59 <vmassol> there are probably people who's extended the mailsender plugin with additional code
17:00 <vmassol> they'll need to update their code too or it won't work
17:00 <vmassol> but it could be acceptable
17:00 <tmortagne> in that case they should use createMailConfiguration API provided by the plugin
17:00 <vmassol> we would documet in release notes
17:00 <vmassol> oh yes I'd definitely introduce a MailConfiguration (I already have it)
17:01 <tmortagne> you don't understand createMailConfiguration is an existing API in the plugin
17:01 <tmortagne> anyone that want to "extend" the plugin should use that to acces the configuration
17:01 <tmortagne> no directly access XWikiPreference document
17:01 <vmassol> it's not extension I'm worried about
17:01 <vmassol> people usually don't extend
17:01 <vmassol> they just copy the code
17:01 <vmassol> and make modifications
17:01 <vmassol> and then use their version
17:02 <vmassol> but as I said we could decide to not support that
17:02 <vmassol> and that's all
17:02 <vmassol> :)
17:02 <tmortagne> we want to get rid of everything in XWikiPreference anyway
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17:21 <vmassol> Enygma`: cool, there's a candidate for freedom sponsor on the list! I'll let you reply to him ;)
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17:49 <Enygma`> vmassol: found it! Writing a reply
17:52 <tmortagne> now he needs to have answers :)
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