IRC Archive for channel #xwiki on 22 June 2016
Last modified by Vincent Massol on 2016/06/22 23:51
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11:17 <Evi_> Hi, I'm figuring out how the standard parent / child relation works in XWiki and how to manipulate it. Is it ordered alphabetically or when the last change on a page was made? I only found this article http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/HierarchyMacro. Has anyone more information about that? Thx for helping me in advance.
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11:38 <polx> @Evi, there’s just the parent slot in pages insider there. Sorting is then left to the various macros.
11:38 <polx> You have question about some precise macro then?
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11:41 <polx> Hello XWiki experts, is there a model to follow when packaging an extensions that contains a xar and a java component? Thus far, I’ve seen dependency-based methods. Is there a way to wrap it all in one archive?
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11:49 <Evi_> @polx: ok, thx. So if I want to change the displayed order of the pages I have have to manipulate each makro..
11:50 <polx> what macro are you using?
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11:53 <Evi_> Spaces Index
11:57 <Evi_> In the dashboad template, the space index lists all pages/documents in the space
11:58 <vmassol> FTR, just got an issue again with link references in a wiki by a user
11:58 <vmassol> for lestcastocdeurs.myxwiki.org
11:59 <vmassol> basically one user wanted to add a gadget to the dashboard
11:59 <vmassol> so he added a gadget with a link like [[Notes des episodes>>Notes des episodes]] and this works when displayed on Main.WebHome but fails when displayed on Dashboard.WebHome (failed = creates a wanted link)
11:59 <vmassol> using Notes des episodes.WebHome makes it work
12:00 <vmassol> ("Notes des episodes" is a non terminal page)
12:00 <vmassol> but using WebHome is complex and the user didn't know he had to use this...
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12:48 <Enygma`> vmassol: that`s probably something that happened in the past as well
12:48 <Enygma`> I imagine that the dashboard gadget used an include macro instead of a display macro
12:49 <Enygma`> so it`s normal for the relative link to resolve relative to the place where it is used
12:50 <Enygma`> polx: no, XWiki extensions should be installed with extension manager and it should be in charge of installing any additional dependencies that the extension may have (this includes other parts of the extension itself, like various jars)
12:51 <polx> @Enygma, this means that the extension manager is the only way to distribute, right? Since otherwise, you’d need to upload 3 (in my case) different extensions.
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13:35 <Evi_> Is it possible to add a page to the quick link list? Or is it just for services like Sandbox
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13:38 <vmassol> Enygma`: there's no include nor display. I guess it's how the resolving is done inside the Dashboard macro
13:39 <vmassol> ie the location metadata set by the macro probably
13:42 <vmassol> whatever the cause, we need to fix this
14:02 <vmassol> note that it doesn't reproduce as is on master because Dashboard has been moved from Main.Dashoard to Dashboard.WebHome
14:03 <vmassol> but if you move it back, we still get the same problem
14:05 <vmassol> Enygma`: I'm not sure I understand the logic
14:06 <vmassol> when you have [[something]] inside Dashboard.WebHome, how is it resolved?
14:06 <vmassol> and why is it resolved differently if it's in Main.Dashboard?
14:06 <vmassol> (since I myself have issues explaining this, I can't imagine how complex it must be for our users ;))
14:07 <vmassol> (something is pointing to something.WebHome in the example)
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14:28 <Enygma`> vmassol: you don`t have anything in Dasbhoard.WebHome. The content of that page is just {{dashboard /}}
14:28 <Enygma`> it`s inside the gadgets that you can have stuff
14:30 <vmassol> Enygma`: forget the dashboard macro it's not th eproblem
14:30 <Enygma`> and in your case it was probably a basic text gadget (gadget object inside Dashboard.WebHome) with the content [[somePage]]
14:30 <vmassol> I get the same behavior without the dashboard
14:31 <vmassol> So you an easily reproduce:
14:31 <vmassol> * Create a top level nested page "something"
14:31 <Enygma`> rendering [[A]] in page Main.WebHome will give you one result and redering [[A]] in SomethingElse.WebHome will give you a different result
14:31 <vmassol> yes
14:31 <vmassol> that's what I don't understad
14:32 <vmassol> in my case it's Main.WebHome and Main.Dashboard
14:32 <vmassol> s/and/vs/
14:33 <Enygma`> ok, so A is a top level, non-terminal page
14:34 <Enygma`> and [[A]] inside Main.WebHome should resolve as the non-terminal sibling of Main, which is A.WebHome
14:34 <Enygma`> (after trying the children first)
14:35 <Enygma`> Evi_: You can edit the Quick Links panel
14:36 <vmassol> so Main.A doesn't exist so it consider it not a relative ref but a full ref, i.e. A.WebHome
14:37 <vmassol> now when [[A]] is in Main.Dashboard (Dashboard is a terminal page)
14:37 <vmassol> why would it try it as a children page?
14:37 <vmassol> (since it's terminal)
14:38 <Evi_> @Enygma: I'm in the edit mode of quick links panel. For Sandbox its * [[$services.localization.render('xe.panels.quicklinks.sandbox')>>Sandbox.WebHome]]. What do I have to put in if I want to add a Quick Link for the Site /Main/Wiki+Guide/?
14:38 <vmassol> from the link I see, it resolves as Main.A.WebHome
14:39 <vmassol> so basically the difference is that we have 2 levels (Main and Dashboard for Main.Dashboard vs 1 level only for Main.WebHome - WebHome doesn't count)....
14:39 <vmassol> yuck, impossible to understand for users ;)
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14:52 <Enygma`> vmassol: we explain it this way: relative links first try children and then try siblings
14:52 <Enygma`> for a terminal page, there is no children to try so we default to siblings directly, like we did before
14:52 <Enygma`> just that now they are non-terminal siblings by default
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14:53 <Enygma`> on Main.WebHome, it was Main.A, Main.A.WebHome, A.WebHome (stop)... on Main.Dashboard it was Main.A, Main.A.WebHome (stop)
14:55 <Enygma`> Evi_: Check out the syntax guide for link syntax: http://platform.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Main/XWikiSyntax?syntax=2.1§ion=Links
14:56 <vmassol> autocomplete in wiki editor would help a lot actually
14:56 <Enygma`> in your case, it would be [[Some Label You Want To Show>>Main.Wiki Guide]]
14:56 <vmassol> (autocomplete for links)
14:56 <Enygma`> he`s in inline edit now
14:57 <Enygma`> but still, yes
14:57 <vmassol> Enygma`: I'm referring to my issue above ;)
14:57 <vmassol> where the user couldn't create the proper link
14:57 <vmassol> in the end he's used the full URL....
14:57 <vmassol> that was the only he could make it work
14:57 <vmassol> *only way
14:58 <Evi_> Ok, thx. And I'm desperately trying to understand how the standard parent / child relation works in XWiki. When I add new pages it seems that they are sorted randomly. Not alphabetically nor when the last change on a page was made..
14:59 <Enygma`> vmassol: in your case he should have probable used either [[space:A]] or [[A.WebHome]] to refer the top level document absolutely, regardless of rendering context
14:59 <vmassol> that's not possible Enygma`
15:00 <vmassol> WebHome is not something he knows about and nor is "space:" prefix
15:00 <vmassol> he tried for 10 minutes and then stopped
15:00 <Enygma`> Evi_: have you read http://platform.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Features/ContentOrganization ?
15:01 <vmassol> basically it's not possible unless you start reading the doc and take the time t understand several concepts which is not something casual users will do
15:01 <Enygma`> vmassol: it`s the price we pay for being relative by default
15:01 <Enygma`> I would prefer to be absolute by default and relative with some syntax... like [[.A]] instead
15:01 <vmassol> yes, all I'm saying is that we need to quickly find a better solution for linking
15:02 <Enygma`> vmassol: can`t disagree :)
15:02 <vmassol> cool
15:03 <Enygma`> just that backwards compat was a big requirement and this is the result
15:03 <Enygma`> and I`m not sure how we can do anything about it without breaking backwards compat
15:03 <vmassol> we were doing absolute by default before
15:03 <vmassol> so not sure why you say that backward compat as a big req
15:03 <vmassol> s/as a/was a
15:04 <vmassol> now ofc we need to handle the mess we created since 7.4 ;)
15:04 <vmassol> (7.2 actually)
15:04 <tmortagne> Enygma` is taling about considering a single element as absolute
15:04 <tmortagne> single element always been relative
15:04 <Enygma`> how is [[A]] from Main.X being resolved to Main.A, as we did before, absolute to you?
15:04 <Evi_> @Enygma: yes, I've read this, but this says nothing about the ordering. Like A - B - C - D or 1 - 2 -3. Which children is on top C or A, and why?
15:05 <vmassol> yes, ok I see, I remember now
15:05 <tmortagne> a single element would not even mean anything before before a document has to be in a space
15:05 <Enygma`> Evi_: when viewing page trees, the pages are sorted by the page name (not by the page title). A page has a name (that is shown in the URL) and a title (that you can edit in edit mode). As a result, pages could *seem* unsorted when titles are not the same as the page name.
15:06 <tmortagne> (absolute single element I mean)
15:06 <vmassol> yep
15:06 <tmortagne> about tree and sorting we talking about moving to Solr for those which would fix performance issue and also rendered title sorting
15:07 <tmortagne> s/talking/talked/
15:07 <vmassol> the only thing I can imagine is a new xwiki syntax
15:07 <vmassol> like xwiki Syntax 2.2
15:07 <vmassol> which would handle it differently
15:08 <vmassol> that's the only valid way I can think of to not break backward compat
15:08 <Enygma`> Evi_: we have an issue for the document tree widget to come up with a solution for sorting by page title: http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-12832 but there are some technical issues that makes it more difficult than it would seem. Right now just know the difference between the page name and page title and that this is the reason for the apparent sorting issue in the tree. The pages are sorted, just that they are sorted by page name :)
15:08 <vmassol> and it would be absolute first
15:08 <vmassol> s/first/by default
15:09 <vmassol> going to start a mail thread about thi
15:09 <vmassol> s
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15:09 <Enygma`> vmassol: that sounds like a solution that would allows us to incrementally migrate to it
15:09 <Enygma`> instead of breaking stuff
15:09 <Enygma`> XWiki 2.1 is already abused enough with the recent changes :)
15:09 <vmassol> yes
15:10 <Enygma`> but we would have incompatibilities when converting from 2.1 to 2.2 automatically
15:10 <vmassol> why?
15:10 <vmassol> ah yes
15:10 <Enygma`> since in 2.1- we don`t have the notion of relative links
15:10 <Enygma`> that we will introduce in 2.2
15:10 <vmassol> because it's resolved depending in the context?
15:11 <vmassol> s/in/of
15:11 <tmortagne> one issue with this logic is that reference resolving does not have much to do with the syntaxe
15:11 <vmassol> I don't understand
15:11 <Evi_> ok, I understand the difference of page title and url. With what logic are the urls sorted? Like A, B, C?
15:12 <vmassol> tmortagne: sure but it means we would have several resolvers and that syntax would use one resolver
15:12 <vmassol> (it's just an arbitrary choice for a syntaxe to choose its resolver)
15:12 <vmassol> btw this is what we do alreay
15:12 <vmassol> we have different resolves for wiki syntax 2.0 and 2.1
15:12 <Enygma`> Evi_: what do you mean by sorting URLs?
15:12 <tmortagne> vmassol: not really
15:13 <tmortagne> it's not the same level
15:13 <tmortagne> the difference between 2.0 and 2.1 is the resource reference, not the way to understand a document reference
15:13 <Enygma`> Evi_: What you see in the URL /xwiki/bin/view/A/B/C is the location of the current page (C). The full location of page C is A.B.C (with the wiki being the root location for all pages)
15:15 <tmortagne> also it's not just the syntax, you have the same resolution in scripts and in macros
15:17 <vmassol> yes that's a good point. If they're not in sync that would be confusing
15:18 <vmassol> the resolving of macro params representing references in not done by the syntax but by the macro....
15:18 <vmassol> s/in not/is not
15:20 <tmortagne> the resolving of the reference is not done by the syntaxe either right now :)
15:20 <tmortagne> even for link
15:20 <vmassol> indeed
15:20 <vmassol> WikiModel does it
15:20 <tmortagne> all the syntaxe is doing is saying if a document resource reference and nothing more
15:21 <Evi_> @Enygma: I mean how the children are sorted in the page tree. When I have two children pages. One url is "A" and second url is "V". If it is sorted alphabetically "A" should be on top of the tree, right? I hope you understand my question. Its hard to explain.
15:21 <vmassol> so we're stuck :)
15:21 <tmortagne> that's what makes it's very different from 2.0 vs 2.1
15:21 <tmortagne> there could be ways but it's not as simple as a new syntax
15:21 <vmassol> since it would need introducing namespacing for references and the question of the default namespace
15:36 <vmassol> maybe what we are missing is a syntax to say absolute too
15:36 <vmassol> [[/Notes des episode]]
15:37 <vmassol> space:xxxx is too hard to explain to a user since you need to explain the concept of space…
15:37 <vmassol> or we create an alias for "space:"
15:39 <vmassol> I've been talking to the user (that's Emmanuel Bernard)
15:39 <vmassol> he actually googled for our syntax
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15:39 <vmassol> he says that if he had know that the ref of the page was "Notes des episodes.WebHome" he could have succeeded
15:43 <vmassol> btw we have a bug in French on myxwiki.org for rename: https://www.evernote.com/l/AHcE7XisTB9MtqbtbLs2XD6LeqZ3Qgfaps0
15:43 <vmassol> "RENOMMER AUSSI {0}{1} {1,CHOICE,0#ENFANT|1#ENFANT|1"
15:44 <tmortagne> any new syntax in the reference is a breakage in theory but [[/Notes des episode]] should not break too many people and it's indeed an easy one (still an easy one for technical people)
15:45 <tmortagne> we also need to define a syntax for "parent" so we could go fully the unix style and have . for current (which we already support), .. for parent and / for root
15:46 <tmortagne> I doubt .. and / would break anyone
15:47 <vmassol> it could but it's marginal and it's probably acceptable
15:47 <vmassol> s/could/would probabmy
15:48 <vmassol> like we would break 2 people in the world
15:48 <tmortagne> probably not even
15:48 <vmassol> I'm sure there are people who name some of their pages with a leading "/"
15:48 <vmassol> (I've seen some wild names ;))
15:48 <vmassol> and "…" is likely too
15:49 <vmassol> (ellipsis)
15:49 <vmassol> someone naming tech pages after a unix path would hit the issue for ex
15:52 <vmassol> mflorea/Enygma` (don't remember who coded the new rename ui): have you reused some existing translations keys for the new rename UI but using different parameters?
15:53 <vmassol> see https://www.evernote.com/l/AHcE7XisTB9MtqbtbLs2XD6LeqZ3Qgfaps0
15:54 <mflorea> vmassol: it's probably me who coded the new rename ui, but I don't remember about the translations, I'll have to check the code
15:55 <vmassol> it's likely it's broken for all translations now
15:55 <vmassol> (except the English one)
15:56 <vmassol> testing another language
15:56 <vmassol> hmm no it's ok in spanish for example
15:59 <vmassol> actually
16:00 <vmassol> checking l10n it's probably someone who translated the hint instead
16:00 <mflorea> yes, maybe he messed up the choice syntax
16:01 <vmassol> I think he mixed up the hint and the label
16:01 <vmassol> got to go in meeting right now, will check after unless someone beats me ;)
16:09 <mflorea> vmassol: it's https://github.com/xwiki/xwiki-platform/commit/12ec17d1c486935162581d47bbf1077693c401e6
16:10 <mflorea> core.rename.links.label used to have some parameters
16:10 <mflorea> and it doesn't have them anymore
16:28 <Enygma`> apparently I broke it. Probably should have deprecated some translations but probably though that I could not find better names than the current ones, don`t remember exactly.
16:31 <Enygma`> Evi_: yes, what you refer to URL is called "page name" :) and yes, a page named "A" should be on top of a page named "V", when displayed in a page tree at the same level (having the same parent), as far as I remember.
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16:36 <Evi_> thx Enygma! Now I understand! =)
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17:15 <vmassol> back
17:15 <vmassol> indeed mflorea
17:15 <vmassol> so we need to fix it
17:15 <vmassol> 2 solutions:
17:15 <vmassol> 1) we introduce new keys
17:16 <vmassol> 2) we accept the breakage and fix the translations
17:16 <vmassol> Enygma`: wdyt?
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11:17 <Evi_> Hi, I'm figuring out how the standard parent / child relation works in XWiki and how to manipulate it. Is it ordered alphabetically or when the last change on a page was made? I only found this article http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/HierarchyMacro. Has anyone more information about that? Thx for helping me in advance.
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11:38 <polx> @Evi, there’s just the parent slot in pages insider there. Sorting is then left to the various macros.
11:38 <polx> You have question about some precise macro then?
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11:41 <polx> Hello XWiki experts, is there a model to follow when packaging an extensions that contains a xar and a java component? Thus far, I’ve seen dependency-based methods. Is there a way to wrap it all in one archive?
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11:49 <Evi_> @polx: ok, thx. So if I want to change the displayed order of the pages I have have to manipulate each makro..
11:50 <polx> what macro are you using?
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11:53 <Evi_> Spaces Index
11:57 <Evi_> In the dashboad template, the space index lists all pages/documents in the space
11:58 <vmassol> FTR, just got an issue again with link references in a wiki by a user
11:58 <vmassol> for lestcastocdeurs.myxwiki.org
11:59 <vmassol> basically one user wanted to add a gadget to the dashboard
11:59 <vmassol> so he added a gadget with a link like [[Notes des episodes>>Notes des episodes]] and this works when displayed on Main.WebHome but fails when displayed on Dashboard.WebHome (failed = creates a wanted link)
11:59 <vmassol> using Notes des episodes.WebHome makes it work
12:00 <vmassol> ("Notes des episodes" is a non terminal page)
12:00 <vmassol> but using WebHome is complex and the user didn't know he had to use this...
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12:48 <Enygma`> vmassol: that`s probably something that happened in the past as well
12:48 <Enygma`> I imagine that the dashboard gadget used an include macro instead of a display macro
12:49 <Enygma`> so it`s normal for the relative link to resolve relative to the place where it is used
12:50 <Enygma`> polx: no, XWiki extensions should be installed with extension manager and it should be in charge of installing any additional dependencies that the extension may have (this includes other parts of the extension itself, like various jars)
12:51 <polx> @Enygma, this means that the extension manager is the only way to distribute, right? Since otherwise, you’d need to upload 3 (in my case) different extensions.
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13:35 <Evi_> Is it possible to add a page to the quick link list? Or is it just for services like Sandbox
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13:38 <vmassol> Enygma`: there's no include nor display. I guess it's how the resolving is done inside the Dashboard macro
13:39 <vmassol> ie the location metadata set by the macro probably
13:42 <vmassol> whatever the cause, we need to fix this
14:02 <vmassol> note that it doesn't reproduce as is on master because Dashboard has been moved from Main.Dashoard to Dashboard.WebHome
14:03 <vmassol> but if you move it back, we still get the same problem
14:05 <vmassol> Enygma`: I'm not sure I understand the logic
14:06 <vmassol> when you have [[something]] inside Dashboard.WebHome, how is it resolved?
14:06 <vmassol> and why is it resolved differently if it's in Main.Dashboard?
14:06 <vmassol> (since I myself have issues explaining this, I can't imagine how complex it must be for our users ;))
14:07 <vmassol> (something is pointing to something.WebHome in the example)
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14:28 <Enygma`> vmassol: you don`t have anything in Dasbhoard.WebHome. The content of that page is just {{dashboard /}}
14:28 <Enygma`> it`s inside the gadgets that you can have stuff
14:30 <vmassol> Enygma`: forget the dashboard macro it's not th eproblem
14:30 <Enygma`> and in your case it was probably a basic text gadget (gadget object inside Dashboard.WebHome) with the content [[somePage]]
14:30 <vmassol> I get the same behavior without the dashboard
14:31 <vmassol> So you an easily reproduce:
14:31 <vmassol> * Create a top level nested page "something"
14:31 <Enygma`> rendering [[A]] in page Main.WebHome will give you one result and redering [[A]] in SomethingElse.WebHome will give you a different result
14:31 <vmassol> yes
14:31 <vmassol> that's what I don't understad
14:32 <vmassol> in my case it's Main.WebHome and Main.Dashboard
14:32 <vmassol> s/and/vs/
14:33 <Enygma`> ok, so A is a top level, non-terminal page
14:34 <Enygma`> and [[A]] inside Main.WebHome should resolve as the non-terminal sibling of Main, which is A.WebHome
14:34 <Enygma`> (after trying the children first)
14:35 <Enygma`> Evi_: You can edit the Quick Links panel
14:36 <vmassol> so Main.A doesn't exist so it consider it not a relative ref but a full ref, i.e. A.WebHome
14:37 <vmassol> now when [[A]] is in Main.Dashboard (Dashboard is a terminal page)
14:37 <vmassol> why would it try it as a children page?
14:37 <vmassol> (since it's terminal)
14:38 <Evi_> @Enygma: I'm in the edit mode of quick links panel. For Sandbox its * [[$services.localization.render('xe.panels.quicklinks.sandbox')>>Sandbox.WebHome]]. What do I have to put in if I want to add a Quick Link for the Site /Main/Wiki+Guide/?
14:38 <vmassol> from the link I see, it resolves as Main.A.WebHome
14:39 <vmassol> so basically the difference is that we have 2 levels (Main and Dashboard for Main.Dashboard vs 1 level only for Main.WebHome - WebHome doesn't count)....
14:39 <vmassol> yuck, impossible to understand for users ;)
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14:52 <Enygma`> vmassol: we explain it this way: relative links first try children and then try siblings
14:52 <Enygma`> for a terminal page, there is no children to try so we default to siblings directly, like we did before
14:52 <Enygma`> just that now they are non-terminal siblings by default
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14:53 <Enygma`> on Main.WebHome, it was Main.A, Main.A.WebHome, A.WebHome (stop)... on Main.Dashboard it was Main.A, Main.A.WebHome (stop)
14:55 <Enygma`> Evi_: Check out the syntax guide for link syntax: http://platform.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Main/XWikiSyntax?syntax=2.1§ion=Links
14:56 <vmassol> autocomplete in wiki editor would help a lot actually
14:56 <Enygma`> in your case, it would be [[Some Label You Want To Show>>Main.Wiki Guide]]
14:56 <vmassol> (autocomplete for links)
14:56 <Enygma`> he`s in inline edit now
14:57 <Enygma`> but still, yes
14:57 <vmassol> Enygma`: I'm referring to my issue above ;)
14:57 <vmassol> where the user couldn't create the proper link
14:57 <vmassol> in the end he's used the full URL....
14:57 <vmassol> that was the only he could make it work
14:57 <vmassol> *only way
14:58 <Evi_> Ok, thx. And I'm desperately trying to understand how the standard parent / child relation works in XWiki. When I add new pages it seems that they are sorted randomly. Not alphabetically nor when the last change on a page was made..
14:59 <Enygma`> vmassol: in your case he should have probable used either [[space:A]] or [[A.WebHome]] to refer the top level document absolutely, regardless of rendering context
14:59 <vmassol> that's not possible Enygma`
15:00 <vmassol> WebHome is not something he knows about and nor is "space:" prefix
15:00 <vmassol> he tried for 10 minutes and then stopped
15:00 <Enygma`> Evi_: have you read http://platform.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Features/ContentOrganization ?
15:01 <vmassol> basically it's not possible unless you start reading the doc and take the time t understand several concepts which is not something casual users will do
15:01 <Enygma`> vmassol: it`s the price we pay for being relative by default
15:01 <Enygma`> I would prefer to be absolute by default and relative with some syntax... like [[.A]] instead
15:01 <vmassol> yes, all I'm saying is that we need to quickly find a better solution for linking
15:02 <Enygma`> vmassol: can`t disagree :)
15:02 <vmassol> cool
15:03 <Enygma`> just that backwards compat was a big requirement and this is the result
15:03 <Enygma`> and I`m not sure how we can do anything about it without breaking backwards compat
15:03 <vmassol> we were doing absolute by default before
15:03 <vmassol> so not sure why you say that backward compat as a big req
15:03 <vmassol> s/as a/was a
15:04 <vmassol> now ofc we need to handle the mess we created since 7.4 ;)
15:04 <vmassol> (7.2 actually)
15:04 <tmortagne> Enygma` is taling about considering a single element as absolute
15:04 <tmortagne> single element always been relative
15:04 <Enygma`> how is [[A]] from Main.X being resolved to Main.A, as we did before, absolute to you?
15:04 <Evi_> @Enygma: yes, I've read this, but this says nothing about the ordering. Like A - B - C - D or 1 - 2 -3. Which children is on top C or A, and why?
15:05 <vmassol> yes, ok I see, I remember now
15:05 <tmortagne> a single element would not even mean anything before before a document has to be in a space
15:05 <Enygma`> Evi_: when viewing page trees, the pages are sorted by the page name (not by the page title). A page has a name (that is shown in the URL) and a title (that you can edit in edit mode). As a result, pages could *seem* unsorted when titles are not the same as the page name.
15:06 <tmortagne> (absolute single element I mean)
15:06 <vmassol> yep
15:06 <tmortagne> about tree and sorting we talking about moving to Solr for those which would fix performance issue and also rendered title sorting
15:07 <tmortagne> s/talking/talked/
15:07 <vmassol> the only thing I can imagine is a new xwiki syntax
15:07 <vmassol> like xwiki Syntax 2.2
15:07 <vmassol> which would handle it differently
15:08 <vmassol> that's the only valid way I can think of to not break backward compat
15:08 <Enygma`> Evi_: we have an issue for the document tree widget to come up with a solution for sorting by page title: http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-12832 but there are some technical issues that makes it more difficult than it would seem. Right now just know the difference between the page name and page title and that this is the reason for the apparent sorting issue in the tree. The pages are sorted, just that they are sorted by page name :)
15:08 <vmassol> and it would be absolute first
15:08 <vmassol> s/first/by default
15:09 <vmassol> going to start a mail thread about thi
15:09 <vmassol> s
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15:09 <Enygma`> vmassol: that sounds like a solution that would allows us to incrementally migrate to it
15:09 <Enygma`> instead of breaking stuff
15:09 <Enygma`> XWiki 2.1 is already abused enough with the recent changes :)
15:09 <vmassol> yes
15:10 <Enygma`> but we would have incompatibilities when converting from 2.1 to 2.2 automatically
15:10 <vmassol> why?
15:10 <vmassol> ah yes
15:10 <Enygma`> since in 2.1- we don`t have the notion of relative links
15:10 <Enygma`> that we will introduce in 2.2
15:10 <vmassol> because it's resolved depending in the context?
15:11 <vmassol> s/in/of
15:11 <tmortagne> one issue with this logic is that reference resolving does not have much to do with the syntaxe
15:11 <vmassol> I don't understand
15:11 <Evi_> ok, I understand the difference of page title and url. With what logic are the urls sorted? Like A, B, C?
15:12 <vmassol> tmortagne: sure but it means we would have several resolvers and that syntax would use one resolver
15:12 <vmassol> (it's just an arbitrary choice for a syntaxe to choose its resolver)
15:12 <vmassol> btw this is what we do alreay
15:12 <vmassol> we have different resolves for wiki syntax 2.0 and 2.1
15:12 <Enygma`> Evi_: what do you mean by sorting URLs?
15:12 <tmortagne> vmassol: not really
15:13 <tmortagne> it's not the same level
15:13 <tmortagne> the difference between 2.0 and 2.1 is the resource reference, not the way to understand a document reference
15:13 <Enygma`> Evi_: What you see in the URL /xwiki/bin/view/A/B/C is the location of the current page (C). The full location of page C is A.B.C (with the wiki being the root location for all pages)
15:15 <tmortagne> also it's not just the syntax, you have the same resolution in scripts and in macros
15:17 <vmassol> yes that's a good point. If they're not in sync that would be confusing
15:18 <vmassol> the resolving of macro params representing references in not done by the syntax but by the macro....
15:18 <vmassol> s/in not/is not
15:20 <tmortagne> the resolving of the reference is not done by the syntaxe either right now :)
15:20 <tmortagne> even for link
15:20 <vmassol> indeed
15:20 <vmassol> WikiModel does it
15:20 <tmortagne> all the syntaxe is doing is saying if a document resource reference and nothing more
15:21 <Evi_> @Enygma: I mean how the children are sorted in the page tree. When I have two children pages. One url is "A" and second url is "V". If it is sorted alphabetically "A" should be on top of the tree, right? I hope you understand my question. Its hard to explain.
15:21 <vmassol> so we're stuck :)
15:21 <tmortagne> that's what makes it's very different from 2.0 vs 2.1
15:21 <tmortagne> there could be ways but it's not as simple as a new syntax
15:21 <vmassol> since it would need introducing namespacing for references and the question of the default namespace
15:36 <vmassol> maybe what we are missing is a syntax to say absolute too
15:36 <vmassol> [[/Notes des episode]]
15:37 <vmassol> space:xxxx is too hard to explain to a user since you need to explain the concept of space…
15:37 <vmassol> or we create an alias for "space:"
15:39 <vmassol> I've been talking to the user (that's Emmanuel Bernard)
15:39 <vmassol> he actually googled for our syntax
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15:39 <vmassol> he says that if he had know that the ref of the page was "Notes des episodes.WebHome" he could have succeeded
15:43 <vmassol> btw we have a bug in French on myxwiki.org for rename: https://www.evernote.com/l/AHcE7XisTB9MtqbtbLs2XD6LeqZ3Qgfaps0
15:43 <vmassol> "RENOMMER AUSSI {0}{1} {1,CHOICE,0#ENFANT|1#ENFANT|1"
15:44 <tmortagne> any new syntax in the reference is a breakage in theory but [[/Notes des episode]] should not break too many people and it's indeed an easy one (still an easy one for technical people)
15:45 <tmortagne> we also need to define a syntax for "parent" so we could go fully the unix style and have . for current (which we already support), .. for parent and / for root
15:46 <tmortagne> I doubt .. and / would break anyone
15:47 <vmassol> it could but it's marginal and it's probably acceptable
15:47 <vmassol> s/could/would probabmy
15:48 <vmassol> like we would break 2 people in the world
15:48 <tmortagne> probably not even
15:48 <vmassol> I'm sure there are people who name some of their pages with a leading "/"
15:48 <vmassol> (I've seen some wild names ;))
15:48 <vmassol> and "…" is likely too
15:49 <vmassol> (ellipsis)
15:49 <vmassol> someone naming tech pages after a unix path would hit the issue for ex
15:52 <vmassol> mflorea/Enygma` (don't remember who coded the new rename ui): have you reused some existing translations keys for the new rename UI but using different parameters?
15:53 <vmassol> see https://www.evernote.com/l/AHcE7XisTB9MtqbtbLs2XD6LeqZ3Qgfaps0
15:54 <mflorea> vmassol: it's probably me who coded the new rename ui, but I don't remember about the translations, I'll have to check the code
15:55 <vmassol> it's likely it's broken for all translations now
15:55 <vmassol> (except the English one)
15:56 <vmassol> testing another language
15:56 <vmassol> hmm no it's ok in spanish for example
15:59 <vmassol> actually
16:00 <vmassol> checking l10n it's probably someone who translated the hint instead
16:00 <mflorea> yes, maybe he messed up the choice syntax
16:01 <vmassol> I think he mixed up the hint and the label
16:01 <vmassol> got to go in meeting right now, will check after unless someone beats me ;)
16:09 <mflorea> vmassol: it's https://github.com/xwiki/xwiki-platform/commit/12ec17d1c486935162581d47bbf1077693c401e6
16:10 <mflorea> core.rename.links.label used to have some parameters
16:10 <mflorea> and it doesn't have them anymore
16:28 <Enygma`> apparently I broke it. Probably should have deprecated some translations but probably though that I could not find better names than the current ones, don`t remember exactly.
16:31 <Enygma`> Evi_: yes, what you refer to URL is called "page name" :) and yes, a page named "A" should be on top of a page named "V", when displayed in a page tree at the same level (having the same parent), as far as I remember.
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16:36 <Evi_> thx Enygma! Now I understand! =)
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17:15 <vmassol> back
17:15 <vmassol> indeed mflorea
17:15 <vmassol> so we need to fix it
17:15 <vmassol> 2 solutions:
17:15 <vmassol> 1) we introduce new keys
17:16 <vmassol> 2) we accept the breakage and fix the translations
17:16 <vmassol> Enygma`: wdyt?
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